The Powergamer Issue

[sergeant_x]

I'll save us all from a longwinded intro and just say this: In my opinion, nothing will ruin a Firefly game quicker than catering to the ambitions of powergamers. I don't want to play a game designed to indulge the competitive ratrace style of play that dominates other MMORPGs. Nothing would be further from the soul of Firefly.

Thoughts?

[Lokix]

Yeah, the last thing I would want to see is this to turn into another WoW where you just grind to x level and then grind and grind and grind to get pvp rank and top tier gear. BORING

[mrwombat]

It's a matter of balance. If you remove the social aspect, you wind up with Diablo 2, if you remove the PvE content, you wind up with Second Life. Firefly seems to lend itself to a much more social game, but it still needs to have goals and advancement or it becomes The Sims Online: Gettin' Spacey.

If you don't mind a rather long read, Players Who Suit MUDs is a pretty spot-on analysis of how people play games.
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Seriously guys. Panda ranching. Don't let me down.

[dukrous]

That's just it, Lotix. WOW is all combat with no social game. Second Life is a social game with no combat. The key is to be a hybrid of both. That means you're essentially designing two different games which hook into each other at different intersections.

The way I see this game is SWG mixed with EVE as a kernel and evolving the idea into something new.

[sergeant_x]

[sergeant_x]

I want be clear that I'm not looking to tone down 'violence' or 'combat' per se. Combat risks are essential for driving roleplaying and it should be a significant part of any Firefly game. The powergaming I'm wanting to avoid has more to do with the scorekeeping aspect encouraged by most systems, not the combat. Combat success just happens to be the primary way most MMORPGs keep score. From my perspective, it's the way they keep score that's the problem, not the combat.

That said, combat isn't the only way to drive roleplaying and offering more ways to define success for a character (in terms of the game rules) would do a lot to flesh out the 'verse in amore interesting way.

[dukrous]

Actually, combat is counter to roleplaying. That's why what I want is an econ based game where combat is a corollary of making money and not the primary wage-earning method.

But combat is the only way to define success if you're looking at numbers. It's tough to judge how much "fun" someone is having. The more players you retain, the more fun your game is perceived to be. But when people talk about advancing, it's the old game of "my avatar can beat up your avatar." It's why advancement-centric games draw the powergamer...they're attracted to the numbers aspect of competition. Thing is...the powergamer is good for games.

I know...total counterintuitive, but hear me out.

The powergamer is the elite player who drives success. It creates people seeking success and name recognition and defines the high bar for competition. If you get to X level of play, you're somebody. This works for a game because it drives competition for the roof. If the competition surrounds PVP or money made or land owned or widgets made, that's up to the designer. Powergamer is usually thought of in negative tones, but in a game as complex an MMO, the powergamer when compensated for, drive competition and player retention up.

The key, however, is designing a game the powergamer cannot take advantage of and the casual player does not feel left out of. SWG tried to do but failed horribly. EVE does a good job, but it's still not perfect. The solution is out there, and I think Firefly can capitalize on that and build something that does not exist.

Just as the show was applauded for its mix of SF and western themes, so can this game mix the powergamer and casual player in harmonic competition.

[MightyAl]

I really would like to see a game that can work that one out. After all, unless you're in a game at launch, just about everyone you meet will have an 'older' character than you, and in most any MMO I can think of, that does equal 'better' in some respect.
However, if your character has only cosmetic differences(like perhaps a new hat) after a year of playing, a lot of people might feel a little(can't really think of a better word here) scunnered, no matter how much 'fun' that year of playing has been. Which leads to the conclusion that characters probably ahve to 'advance' in some tangible way. The trick is to do that without having the game result in being an 'oldest character wins every time' effort.
edit: Before I forget - happy new year folks. Have a good un.

[sergeant_x]

[holtt]

[link10909]

Powergamers just invest more time the game than others so they get the rewards you can't blame them for that.

If you remove the rewards for dedicated players they will stop playing making the game boring after you play it for afew hours

[wydraz]

Powergamers can rot. There are many gamers who invest time in the game for rewards that don't come at the expense of other gamers.

That is what this topic is about. You shouldn't need to exploit other players to get rewards. If the game is built right, then normal players will be just fine without Powergaming.

I don't understand the need Powergamers have for dominating the game for XP or loot. The game should be about character building and story advancement, not making yourself the biggest badass there is in the 'verse.

[Shayde]

I'd be willing to give up PVP. That always tended to cater to powergamers and their measuring of e-peens.

Hell.. I think the longer you play, the "shinier" the ship would be. Make THAT status... Serenity was beat up pretty well, but Mal found her beautiful. Who knows what he'd do to improve her if he had the means.
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Shayde

[dukrous]

[gogo]

Compared to games like SWG, Wow and EQ2 are very short on community. They have community just like crafting but both are the retarded little brothers of combat.

A good game should have equal emphasis on each aspect, community, crafting, and combat. The point of these games is to escape to this reality, and too often we're forced into roles we may not like. I don't want to go to azeroth to be a fighter, can't i just hang out at the tavern and try to pick up scantly clad elf girls?

Give people the choice to lead the life they want, and you'll see better RP and more depth of character.

We've been discussing a means of elminating the powergamer mentality, no levels and a skill system that doesn't increase your power per skill box, merely your pool of skills.

Also if your ability to defeat an enemy is based more upon your knowledge of your skills and when and how to use them (like a space battle sim) and less than just smashing buttons.
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